Whenever God calls you to multiple things, he gives you the grace for those multiple things. And for those individuals that have the grace on their life for a million different plates, I want to tell them the same thing that he told me keep the plate spinning. It may seem like it's hard, because it was hard for me at the time. But the more you do it, God will, you know, he will open the door and he will carry it with your turn tech leader and the millennial churchgoer exploring the intersection of technology, culture and faith, equipping you with innovative strategies to support you as you live out your calling leader churches with confidence to step into the future together. This is the give it up podcast. What's up guys, and welcome back to another giveth podcast episode. And this is going to be one where we're not even sure what direction we're going to end up with. Because we have the man, the myth, the legend Sam Collier in the building. And for those of you that do not know Sam Collier, he was a pastor of story church, Atlanta. And I say was because now he's an apostle, which he's gonna share more about. And Sam also does a million different things. We like to call him a pastor printer. He's a mutual friend of both Vance and I. And so we are just absolutely thrilled and delighted to have him on the podcast today. Come on. No, you have to jump in. You have to jump in there. What? No, that was an introduction of a lifetime. I feel like my content isn't as great as that introduction. So I'm going to try to live up to it on these next couple of minutes. I love it. Well, Sam, you and I actually met I don't know, maybe 18 ish months ago, maybe a little longer through our mutual friend, Pastor Adam Mesa in Rancho Cucamonga. And ever since he introduced us. We've been friends. We've been following each other's journey. God is obviously doing a mighty work through you. And story church. I can't wait to dig into that more. But I want to say hi to our pod listeners real quick. Man, yeah, I would love to I am a massive fan. I feel like you're fanning I'm fanning of overflow of vans. I always say this. And I don't know if we're able to talk about this publicly. But I've had a few investors or individuals asked me about the value proposition of what overflow is, and why maybe they should invest or not invest in. And I say guys, listen, listen, the technology is next level. The innovation is off the chain. But the wildcard is Vance. That is the wild guard. He is. He's your prophetic. You are futuristic, right. I often compare you and please don't say I'm, you know, being blasphemous. I often compare you to Gary Vee. Right? Like, you're like a prophet. You know, for what? for what's next, because Gary will straight up prophesied to you curse you out, and then tell you what's happening in the next 20 years. And I really feel like that's what God is, you know, building you up as for this generation, and we need it. So I'm, it's an honor for me to be on this show. And I'm excited to just be among the ranks. I want to I want to talk about this real time because I I actually don't view myself as a prophet. Right. And we can break that down theologically. How to unpack that. But one of the first times I got on a call with you, you did something really interesting never happened to me before. We're talking about overflow. We're talking about a fundraise that you were doing at a time capital campaign. I believe you were believing for a certain amount to take sorry, church to the next level. And you said this, I remember it like it was yesterday. You go Vance, prophesy over me. And so what I know about the prophetic is, you know, I'm not trying to even read your mail. All I'm trying to do is encourage you and to pray God's Word over the situation. And that's what we did. And we actually saw some miracles happen after that, I believe. 100% Well, he says he's not You okay, I'll just I'll say it like that. He has a prophetic gift guys. He's able to hear what the voice of the Lord is saying and release it into the atmosphere. And the reason I said prophesy over me is because you were already prophesying. And so I was like, uh, can you keep going because like, you're already in this in this zone. And you actually prophesied a certain and I a specific number that somebody was gonna give us and I was I thought it was crazy. And and I'm not really into and I know you're not into We're not into the snakes. And the you know, the weird the infant five months, your life's gonna change kind of thing. We're not really into that, right where it is we wanted to be normal. So the fact that you gave a number was very weird and very, like, I took a kind of serious, because I wasn't my he doesn't do stuff like this. And we got that exact number. And I just couldn't. I mean, because it was kind of while you like somebody from outside of your ministry is going to donate, this thing is going to happen. And I was like, that's not gonna What are you talking about? And someone called me literally, it was like, I gotta get rid of some money before the end of the year. And it was the exact amount that you spoke. So you're prophetic to me. Hey, man, I that that encourages me and obviously got God has all the glory. What was cool about that, and zone knows a little background, because she's obviously on the overflow team as well. It came through crypto. Come on somebody God can work through crypto. Yep. Yep, yep. It came 100% through crypto. It's why, you know, look, let's just pause, give a commercial break, download the overflow app today. Because it's awesome. We have used it. We're trying to make our way back around, right. Like, I love what Zoe said in the beginning, you get your finance teams, and you're like, how do we get back, I'm like, overflow is the next, we got to make our way back around every day, we are coming down the highway, back to the overflow team. Because when we were using the app, it just blessed us tremendously. And as you know, we've been through a lot of ups and downs and rounds and rounds. And so we're making our way back on over. So I'm a lifetime overflow member, right, I just want to say that and I just want to tell everybody out there, you need to download the app, because it transformed our ministry in so many different ways. And we're excited for when it will do that again. Love that. That's super kind of you. Thank you, Sam, for saying that. Um, what I want to talk about with you is, you said you're doing a ton of different things there. It seems like you're the type of person who puts all four burners on the stove on at the same time, you are not cooking with just one dish, you have all of these things happening. And I want to start with people putting pastors in a box of this is what you do. A pastor does this says this acts like this. And you just knocked all four walls of that box down. And I want to kind of unpack your mindset of how being a pastor can be more than just inside the four walls of a church and how you actually extend your reach and your ministry reach way beyond church ministry. What a big question. Zoe, you coming in? Hi, I, we got to pause for a moment and shout out Brad lomenick. And the reason I want to shout him out is because he said something to me, in the middle of my pastoral journey, which I'm going to I'm going to talk about why he said this, because I think it goes in line with your statement about pastors kind of doing one thing, I do think there's some truth to why that end ends up happening. And Brad kind of had to shake me out of where I was going. And he texted me and he said, Hey, Sam, I just want to remind you to keep the plates spinning, keep the plates spinning. And I was like, huh, he was like, Whatever you do, keep the plates spinning. And I was like, Well, I got so much to do, I'm focused, I gotta get this organization off the ground. And he said, I got you, but keep the plates spinning and he disappeared. And what I thought about that, I mean, even to this day, but it was something I thought about for months, because it at the time, I could not imagine keeping the plates spinning. Because I had one big plate that was spinning out of control. And that's kind of like what pastoring is, it's when it let me say this way. That's what pastoring can be. If you're leading an organization, that is by the grace of God, hopefully making a massive amount of impact in the city. If you're doing it well, and Vance knows this, probably more than most and Zoe I know, you know, at amplify and everything that you've seen happen, you know, if you're doing it well it can be all consuming and at times to really focus in on it like it's its own organism and, and organization in itself. It is it's a plate that has plates within it. Right? So you're like, Hey, you want me to spin more plates than this one plate that has a million plates what is happening and but but he encouraged me with that because he said to me, you know your unique design and your unique call is to the body of Christ to the local church. but it's also to serve the global church as well. So and I just, I just believe this, and I believe that he knows this. You know, whenever God calls you to multiple things, he gives you the grace for those multiple things. And for those individuals that have the grace on their life for a million different plates, I want to tell them the same thing that he told me keep the plate spinning. It may seem like it's hard, because it was hard for me at the time. But the more you do it, God will, you know, he will open the door, and he will carry it with you. So I don't know if that answered the question. But it's probably mentality around it is I got to keep the plates spinning. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about a couple of those plates that you have. Yeah, those plans? Exactly. Yeah. Please, I mean, you tell me which ones you want to talk about? I'll tell you the ones that's on the top of my head. Just say all those things. Yeah, okay. We, we just signed a deal with Capitol Christian music group. And Capitol Christian is about three different labels in one. So Motown gospel, Capitol Christian label group, and then an organization company called rethink. And belonging CO was signed to rethink Sam Rivera sign the rethink, you kind of go down the list of these individuals, and we did a direct deal with rethink capital. So we're in the Motown gospel capital Christian rethink house. And it really wasn't, the deal took about nine months to make happen. But we really felt like God was calling our house to produce a sound that wasn't that didn't just come from Sunday morning, but also created an opportunity and a platform for creatives around the country who just needed a leg up. And so the brand is the story collected, if you go on Spotify, Apple Music, or whatever, you can look that up. Many y'all know my background is music. So God asked me to kind of give up music to for ministry. And it's been about 10 to 12 years since I've done music. And on this level, and God has, you know, he's brought it back. And so we're excited about that we got about three records out. And we just, you know, again, my thing was, I was I was the artists that I that we're trying to get now I needed an opportunity, I needed a leg up, and I didn't want to have to go to the world to get it. So that's what we're that's one of the things that we're doing. As well as pastoring. As well, as you know, at some point, we're going to launch a church network for more churches that are wanting to be a part of what we're doing. And we're excited about that. Who I kick off, I got a new book coming out soon called dream killers, don't tell anybody that's like an exclusive. We got a new book I'm working on as well as some other things. It's so good. Sam, talk to us about the business side, too. And the reason why I want to go into all these different places, because I do believe it'll serve as inspiration and even not inspiration, just creative thought of like, hey, you know, some other people are thinking about their approach to ministry in a dynamic way. You talk to me about some work that you've done with Chick fil A and other business endeavors. What's your mindset around business? Yeah, I, before pastoring, I had a, I think some of the plays that Brad lomenick was referencing, that I kind of put on pause. And now I've started to bring back a little bit, I had a big consulting agency. We had two one was called the resource group that was me and Tony, my wife shout out to her. And then another one was called call your creative services, which I still kind of have now. And one of the things that we did, we consulted a lot of organizations and several different areas. One was definitely diversity and multiculturalism. So that was one, you know, organizations that were predominantly, you know, Caucasian, in terms of their constituency. And also in their leadership, were trying to figure out how do we turn the ship without losing everybody on the boat that we already have. So we helped a lot with that vanderbloemen, we had a partnership with vanderbloemen That was serving a bunch of churches around the country, and we were just helping to speak and to that. Call your creative services and also the resource group also helped. We had a big partnership with thrive and financial at one time, thrive. It was up in Minneapolis, and they actually had an organ There was once a time with thrive. It was three different divisions and they had a church division. And they also had a holdings division. I feel like I'm using a lot of business terms. They had a through a holdings division was just simply meant they own like 15,000 companies. And in that division was an organization called bright pink financial which focused specifically on love and money. And so they were trying to figure out how to do innovative things. So innovation was one of the things that we noticed, was a massive challenge. And really big organizations that were doing well. In other words, they were so busy working in the business, they didn't really have time to work on the business. And they had these innovative projects and ideas, but not the manpower to either get it done, or the time or the margin. So our organization came in and helped them innovate. So for some, it was, hey, we're trying to go from here to there, you know, what do you see around helping us do that with this new product that we have? And then we will come alongside and say, well, there's a few different items that you can do this through some concept, maybe you do a concert series, maybe you launch a social campaign, all of these other things. That's one angle, and then we will help them implement it. Or they will come to us and say, here's some things we've been wanting to do, but don't have the time to do Can you help us do that. And so we've I mean, we've partnered with YouVersion, on different products on different projects that we've been able to do together. Chick fil A was one definitely being on the road with them and hosting and doing some other things. When shape is another. So that was my life. Before all, you know, before I was had something to do every Sunday, and you still have these plates spinning. So I guess my question is this, and I hope this helps pastors, senior church leaders, think about this as well, because maybe there's some plates that God has put in other people's lives as well. Are these doors, one that you've busted open? Or that you've just walked through? Like? How do you measure if you know, your grace for something? Obviously, you have people like Brad lomenick, to encourage you to keep the spinning. But even without that, how do you assess Sam? Wow. Um, I think I think God puts passions in us and lead us toward a certain direction. And the, you know, I often talk about, again, we're talking about this book, often talk about things that keep you up at night. And when it's two or 3am in the morning, and you're going, Ah, it's just a something here. I don't know, the full overflow story. But But what I do know, the answer is that there was a season where you were and I think you still are CFO, at one time at this at this church that you at. And all of a sudden, there's this idea that you birth, and now it's like, I would imagine that there was a moment you said, I don't think I can just leave this thing at the church that I'm at, I gotta there's a there's a passion in me to help other churches. Something I believe was maybe drawing you out. And, you know, I think we all have those feelings. But the other thing I would I would say around assessing is, you know, God will give passions and then we have passions as well. So I think the other question that you're asking is, how do we decipher between my passion and God's passion for me? Right. And one of the things I will say is, you know, it's a really simple principle, it's gonna seem Elementary, but it really does work, follow the favor, follow the faith. So, I had a mentor of mine telling me that once you want to discern the voice of God and direction in your life, follow the favor. How do you know that God is opening this door? How do you know this is some guy wants you to do, there's gonna be favor attached to it, people are going to keep asking you to do it, doors are going to fly open, there is a certain thing that happens in our life that kind of gets out of control. And it's that thing that we don't and it's to think, Vance, you said it, that there are moments where we need to knock down doors, but oftentimes, there's this in between phase between us knocking down the doors, and having the idea in the passion, where God just starts to move. And it's in that space that you can kind of decipher, you know, the will of God because he's moving and he's okay, that's not me. People are calling me people are asking me, I keep running into this unique problem in different places. I'm in the gas station, and somebody said this to me, I showed up at a conference and somebody brought this topic up and I had a solution. Wait, what's happening people are either these these crazy, I somehow ended up at the Nike Headquarters I'm just giving really weird and random occurrences these are the types of things that God does when he's trying to get a message to you I want you to move this way so I would say follow the favor and you if there's favor attached to it, it's probably something that the Lord wants you to lean into. Gaza XO that's a threads right there. Follow the favor. sure that that's one that you were gonna post that 10 on 10 on and just like little breadcrumbs hoping that favors at the end of it right? Favorite Yeah, I love I love I love the idea of follow the favor because it is really walking with the Holy Spirit. Right? You know it If you're single, and you're trying to ask out a girl, and she said no, like 20 times, but probably not favor in that, actually probably a restraining order in that. So it's not about persistence in that situation. But in business, for example, I love this idea that you have around movement, right? Because God is moving. And so I talk to people all the time all you know, God has a business in me. God spoke to me about a business. And they want to be directed by God, but God can't steer something that's not moving. And so oftentimes, oftentimes, it's just taking steps, right and following the favor of God through that journey. So I want to do quick market research with you because the premise of this podcast is a little bit the combination of of a pastor as well as a millennial churchgoer, which you obviously are. When you see pastors being multifaceted, kind of like Sam, you know, what does that do for you? Because I've seen haters on the other side of this type of stuff. I've also seen people that love it, like, where do you where do you land? Let's have an open and honest conversation. Yeah, I love this question. I think it definitely piques your curiosity at first, I'm like, how, how can you do all of this, let alone do all of it well, and with excellence, right, in a way that's honoring to God. And then it also gives me hope, because I, in my work, there was a long time where I'm like, I had this mindset of because I was legitimately working in ministry, and coming to the end of that season, to use a church term. I found myself thinking, well, how can I do anything else other than ministry, totally negating the fact that everything you do can be ministry or ministry adjacent. Like you can still be serving the Lord outside of the context of the church building and outside of a ministry, nonprofit organization. So I think, I think when I see pastors doing that, it's really encouraging because it means they have the same mentality I do. And they're not putting a lid on their sphere of influence that God has graced them for. So good. Well, you said something super interesting in that where, you know, there is this thought of man, how can we do all these things with excellence? So that's kind of what I want to peel back. Another layer on Sam is like, you know, these plates are spinning. How do you make sure that it's divine direction, not distraction for you? Excellent. I, I could talk about this for an hour, if not five, but I won't. I've got a million things popping in my head right now. So I'm going to try to choose one. That is, I'm telling myself stay focused, sound stay focused. And and I think that that's actually a great segue into how to do it. Well, based on what I've learned focus, right. Like, I think what we're talking about is focus. And I think the truth about it is, you can't do anything, well, that you're not focused on if your focus is split. It doesn't matter how great you are at it. If your focus is split, it's not going to be as great as it needs to be as opposed to if your focus is on something. So the question becomes, and I have to throw this I'm throwing this to what I learned vicariously living through Andy Stanley, and orange and the catalyst world and all of these other things. The question becomes, how do you get a heavy amount of focus on a project that you're working on? Because the church is its own? Right? It's its own entity. It's I want to eat, I can say monstrosity, again, if you're doing it, well, if you're doing it, well, that's the other if you're just like, Alright, I'm out here. I'm just I'm just showing up the bread Bible study. If you're doing it, well, it's a monstrosity, right? It's, it's a lot of money coming in. It's a lot of money going out. It's a lot of souls being saved. It's a lot of marriages being restored. It's a lot of people being set free, and you're reaching a city. So if you're doing it, well, it's a monstrosity. So how do you keep doing that well, and start a record label, and launch a conference and build a church network and do all of those well? Well, it's a Chick fil A, you know, Mark Miller says this all the time. He just resigned or not resign, I guess he retired as the vice president of leadership at Chick fil A. And he said this high performance teams do high performance things. And that statement wound transformative to me, I piggyback that on top of what I learned at NorthPoint, just by being around you know, you saw all of these different things coming out of North Point. You know, Andy, at one time was a part of starting catalyst which was just massive conference. It was him it was Reggie Joyner. It was John Maxwell and and written and Landy Donahoe, and they build these this 16,000 person, crazy thing that didn't giant impact. Wow NorthPoint is like 30,000 members at the time. And you're just I'm jumping from location to location, at North Point 7000 person, on average at a location. And it's all of these things, then all of a sudden, you see orange come out of North Point, or, you know, come out of Reggie Joyner who's at North Point, but there's this heavy affiliation. And then they launch a 10,000 person conference. And then you see big stuff. You're like, What are y'all doing? And one of the things that they taught me, they echoed the statement of Mark Miller, here's another Chick fil A ism, when we have a problem, we put a leader on it. So for me, for me, my question is always like, literally, Michael, I'm gonna bring you into my work. My question right now is, hey, capital is awesome. I need a leader that can be focused on this every week. And doesn't mean I can't oversee it doesn't mean I can't guide it doesn't mean I can't take it away, I'm always going to be in the COC. Like, at the church, um, you know, Zoe, you know, hilariously talked about me being an apostle, right is senior pastor and apostle is my new title, but it just speaks into a function. And the function is, I'm in more of a governing seat than I am in the practitioner, see, in order to make this thing run. And so for me, that's what I would say, I have found, if you're gonna do a lot of things, or a few things well, and those few things have have to have a heavy amount of focus on, you have to find a high capacity leader that you can partner with, that then builds a high capacity team within that organization, or within that specific initiative that will carry it out when you're having to split your focus or jump from one thing to the next to go, Hey, is this rolling? And is this rolling? And if you can do it, well, then now you can have right your, your your meeting of governors, and we sit around the round table and go, how's everything going? Here's where we want to go. So, ladies, I know it's not easy. My capacity is directly correlated to the people around me. To to those right, you're talking about empowerment. I mean, this is one small example. Right? But they give it a podcast, right? XO largely owns a lot of the direction and what we do for the given up podcast, so speak, from your perspective really quick on somebody that's empowered, and there's a lot more things that you do. But what are things that allow you to be empowered? What are those things that allow you to be released? I guess? Yeah, I think a big one that's been really influential is someone speaking life into you, because I'm one of those people who this is actually my next question. I want to I want to get into his this element of fearlessness. Because I think that someone can cast a vision, a high level vision. And the first thing I think isn't, I know the next step to take it's how on earth are we going to get there? So I think people that they can come alongside and empower you speak life into you, and then collaborate on what they believe the next right step is, and what I like to call myself and how I see the world is really as a blueprint runner. I'm like, you just give me the blueprints and say, we're working on the kitchen first. And then I'm like, got you, you know. And so I think that's a big element of it is because there's so many people in the faith space, who are so great at casting vision. But how do you take this and drop it right here to 100 levels lower to we're just working on the first step. I think I think that's one of the biggest things for me. So good, so good. That kind of makes me think you have these plates spinning. We've talked about how it's important, Sam, for us to find leaders over each and every one of those xo is mentioning, you know, for a leader that's empowered for her what's important is to get direction on the next step or what the priority is, how do you contextualize that in your world? Let's take the music label, for example. You find leaders, you find a team, how do you take your big vision, your big ambition? And how do you break it down? What's that thought process? Like? Wow. I had a season in my life. I feel like these are all big questions. I had a season of my life where I I was stoked bugling with my, I don't want to say with my faith, I think I would probably say with the outworking of my faith. I was struggling with the outworking of my faith. So I believed in Jesus. And it's actually everything that Zoe is talking about. I had this big vision our I think people will identify with this vast Do you remember this season? And Zoe, I know you probably do as well, what it was like conferences everywhere. I mean, leadership conferences, and you know, every everywhere you went, it was like this, that. And it was it was kind of before it was definitely before the virtual conferences. And it was it was just it was conference everywhere. And I remember going to all these conferences, you know, and leaving the conference so excited. And you know, Louie Giglio, will hop on stage, and he would be like, you know, you're, there's somebody in the audience, you're not just called to the church, you're called to start a movement, you know, to meet or you're called to go started skateboarding? Dang it, you're called to go? You're called to go revolutionize the tattoo industry, right? You just like all of these things, every sphere, every space? Yes. And I remember leaving those conferences going, what? Like, how do I do that? Oh, am I gonna start a movement. And but like, I had all this vision, and they enlarged my capacity, they were enlarging my capacity. Right? Now I'm up at 3am going, how am I going to start a tattoo movement, right. I mean, it's not technically a tattoo movement, but you get my point. And, and honestly, it led to a season of depression. But to be really honest, because I did not know, I was gonna start a movement. But I kept hearing that a movement was in me. So I went on a journey of discovery. And like when you talk about the idea of like, working out your faith and studying to show yourself approved and owning your own development, that's the season I went to, because I got to a point where I was like, Man, I can't just keep hearing the big message. And not knowing the practicality of the message. Come on, it's impossible for me to know the practicality of the message from going to conferences, and church every Sunday, find someone to sit. So that's what I'm talking about mentorship, right. And this is where mentorship starts to get amazing. But that was one of the I started to go on this journey of going, I need to find somebody who has done this well before. And I need to. And there were so many mentors at the time, that I don't even remember who told me this for the first time. But I remember one person or a few people saying to me, you've got to learn how to go all the way to the end. And then Bill backwards to the beginning. And that's the journey I started going on. And we call it we actually we had an organization at the time and a group of individuals that were like we were running together. And it was kind of you know, it's the one the mafia and all the Christian mafia, but it was like, it was a kind of like the mastermind groups now that you have, like early on. And we crafted and coined a term called Peak State is like, what is the peak state of your vision? What is the peak state of overflow was the peak state of story church was the peak state of all of these different visions of, of capital and story records. And the story was like, where do we ultimately want to go? And we would get a whiteboard out, we would draw a picture of that. And then we would go right now what do we need to do from there to get back to where we are now? And that helped me a lot with the practicality of the moment of going, okay, so if I want to go down the street, I gotta take one step out of the house. Oh, no, the first thing I gotta get shoes. Right. And so let me get shoes. I gotta get running. I gotta get walking shoes. And then after my walking shoes, I got to take one step out of the house, and then oh, I think I got to do 20 of those. I got to make sure I have some water for the journey. You know. So that's my simple as we can go deeper if you want, but that's my thing. It's it's brilliant. And I think it's insightful because another key word I heard from you is mentorship. Right? And all throughout this podcast recording, I've heard you say Brad lomenick or, or a Chick fil A is. It's clear, Andy Stanley, it's clear that you are a byproduct of a lot of the people that you've invited into your life to speak into your life. Paul says, Follow me, as I follow Christ. Why didn't Paul just say follow Christ? Right? Because we don't only need to follow Christ, right? We need to see people also pursuing Christ and what that looks like. Yeah, and that's why he added that in. And so, uh, yes, we follow Jesus directly. But also, we need people in our world to show us what it looks like to follow Jesus follow Jesus. Yes, we can have an idea of business in our head. But at the same time, we need examples of people that have done it well. And that applies to every sphere, and every space that we set that we set our feet. I want to talk I want to talk about story church, because we've been talking a lot about things outside of story, church, but story church in and of itself, is a blessing. It is blowing up, people are being saved, people aren't being baptized. I've been seeing it from afar, hearing things directly from mutual friends like Adam Mesa that's been able to speak at your church and hearing the direct report of the people surrounding this phenomena, this very inspirational journey, talk about what's happened, what's God doing in story church? Who, um, I, you know, he's doing what he wants to do, right? Like, it's what I've been describing our journey, as thus far has been like, I feel like I'm sitting in the back of a Tesla. And there's no driver. And his driver. Right is driving his movement, switching lanes, there's an address, I'm just in the backseat going, where you want, you know, God, what do you want us to go. And that's what it's been like, he's just got, you know, we just got a building, that we're still we're breaking ground in the next couple of weeks on this building 10,000 square feet, where year over year and a little over a year old. In terms of as an organization before that, as you know, many, many people know we were Hillsong Atlanta, right for like nine months. So I always say Hillsong birth story church, right. And that was a, that was a season in itself, of just ups and downs. And, you know, the Phoenix Rising right from a lot of the things that we were dealing with at that particular time, but it's just been unbel. It's been a miracle. To be really honest. I won't say the name of somebody that said this to me, but he said, listen, the amount of the amount of pressure and the amount of challenge that your organization has been through in such a short time. It should equal you not even being here. The fact that your organization is still here, and has doubled in size and revenue is unbelievable. And so we just give it we know we give it to God. And now you know, we feel the Lord doing he's he's birthing what we call an apostolic house. And the best way for me to explain this is to talk about an organization called African new life. And there's a big organization called African who live out of Rwanda. And there's a guy named Pastor Charles, his name is Pastor Charles. He's a Rwandan. He is a child of the Rwandan genocide. We recently went to Rwanda because we support our churches now sponsoring some kids over and Rwanda, but he calls their ministry and apostolic ministry. Now he doesn't use language like Apostle Paul, but he believes in what they what you would call fivefold ministry. So he his gifting would be more apostolic, and they've got pastors and then some that are prophetic, some that are more evangelistic, all of these other things. But it was the first time for me that I was able to really see what I believe. The New Testament talks about when it says when it talks about this fivefold government, and how it can produce a certain thing in the earth. Here is this guy who was a child of the genocide, millions and millions of Rwanda is killed. And as a response to this, he becomes he gets his doctorate, and plants this church. His church now has 10 locations. His church decided to become a House of Hope for the region. He calls it taking kids from poverty to leadership. So from an apostolic perspective, all apostolic ministry is is the idea of taking ground. That's the idea. It's just the idea of taking ground. What does it mean for our church to be in a city to operate in the kingdom and to take ground in that city? Over over a certain every sphere every right we go back there again. So you go to his, his his school, his his churches, vans, and attached to his church is a hospital. Cool. I mean a real hospital, like that they built from the ground up, they built a hospital, from the ground up six floors, nurses, doctors, I mean, all of this stuff that you need in combination with the government, you go to the other side of the property, they've got orphanages on the other side of the property, that are taking kids that have grown up in poverty, you go to one side, they've got their own seminary. And they've and they've done these, these organizations. And this, I would just say, Can these conglomerates all around the country of Rwanda, to the point where they have their own primary school from kindergarten up to 12th grade, and then obviously, they have their own university and they have their own seminary. Their school is so successful as the number one school in the country, the number one school in the country, connected to a church. And he looks at me while we're walking around, he says, Sam, this is apostolic ministry. This is the this is not what we've seen in the state, where we profit is so and so. And it is like, come on now. What are we doing the weird stuff that we're talking? We're not talking about that we're just talking about bare bones? What does it mean for the kingdom to invade a city and to invade a space. That's what we're attempting to do at story church, create centers of reconciliation, one around race for sure. But also centers of reconciliation for our city that launches leaders all around the city and all around our world today. So that's what we're doing, bro. And we got, we finally got our building, HQ, a hospital, an orphanage part of the church, part of the building part of the fabric part of the architecture. This is God's plan, the book rise of Christianity by Rodney Stark, my pastor read it several years back, and it changed my whole framework around why Christianity went viral Christianity where I will, because it met practical needs when it got off the ground. Right. And so you look at hospitals today. It actually birthed from the church, the actual idea of a hospital, right? There's a, there's there's the cross with the snake around it, right? Because it birthed from Christians, right. People don't really fully understand that or maybe even appreciate that that concept came from the local church, even if you go all the way back to Leviticus, and the things that God would instruct his people at that time to do like wash their hands. That was hygiene that preserved God's people in a season where the Roman Empire was killing babies, right? Christians, the people of the way, they were pro life, they were pro family. And that's when just on a practical basis, Christian families multiplied. Right. And so it's so cool to see that this is coming back. It's been said that apostles or people that have apostolic ministries, have a pioneering spirit. Yeah, it's also been said that you can always tell a pioneer by the arrows on their back. Ooh, right. So your level of wanting to be a pioneer, is your level of your ability to carry pain and door, your ability to be excellent is Your ability to endure. And so I say, I'm inspired. I also say, We're praying for you. Because we know this, this mantle to carry on continuing to spin plates or to continuing to take territory is not for the faint hearted. is definitely not for the faint hearted. Yeah. Is going to go his own way, though. Yeah. I was going to add to that by basically just asking you how you step into these territories where you don't have any frameworks that work in your context. So basically, you're starting from the ground up, and most people would hit that and say, No, I'm afraid to do that. You really walk into these new spaces? fearlessly. One? How have you learned to fear a little bit less and to what would you say to someone else in this exact same position? Wow. Um, you know, Dr. King, said that, you know, a movement starts one person at a time. And, you know, it's interesting that his sister is oldest living Sister, or the oldest member of the King family, his sister, Dr. Christine King Ferris just passed away this past week. And this past Sunday, I went to her home going service at Ebenezer Baptist Church. And in it, they were telling a story about how Dr. Martha King Jr, gave his life to Jesus, which was very interesting. He was around seven years old. And he went down to the altar at Ebenezer, and gave his life to Jesus, not because he knew what was going on, because his sister gave her gave her life. And, or was talking about giving her life and he said, I don't want her to be the first one. I gotta go before her. So that's how he gives his life. So the whole premise of the sermon, or the eulogy was what happens when sisters stand up, right. And it was, it was such a beautiful ceremony. But in this in this at this funeral, where we're, you know, watching the the old, the last sibling of Dr. King, Pat, you know, be eulogized, you're looking at the future generation of a movement that started a long time ago. So for me, when I think about the idea of a movement, starting one person at a time, the question that I always have, when we talk about individuals, you know, that fearlessness and all these other things is, who's going to be the next one to start it. Right? God's calling all of us to take ground, he just is when we think about the Great Commission, and, you know, Jesus has kind of final words to us in the world, it's, Hey, I gotta go, I'm leaving to help her. But I want you to go to all the four corners of the earth, preach the gospel, make disciples, right, bringing the kingdom it is our mandate to go. And I would dare say this, if we don't go, who is gonna go. And I'm not gonna get too crazy, because I could preach for the next three hours about this next thing, but the enemy doesn't have a problem going, doesn't have a problem going. He will go, and he will inspire individuals to go and act on his behalf. We talked about the scripture, that thief comes to steal, kill and destroy, but I have come to you may have life have been more abundantly, he does not have a problem stealing, killing and destroy he is going with. So for me, my statement is always, you know, if he didn't have problems going, we cannot have a problem. taking the first step, somebody has to take the step for God's mission to be done in the earth. So I just want to encourage somebody with that statement of if you don't go who will go. And let's let the weight of a generation sit on our shoulders, and empower us to do it afraid. Because if we can do it afraid, usually that fear will start to dissipate, the more we go. TD Jakes always says this fear can be in the car just can't have the driver's seat. You can you can be in the passenger seat, but you can't drive. But you can be right there. So that's my encouragement. And that to me, and the answer to the question, you know, for me, you know, that's what gets me up in the morning is, man, if I don't go who's gonna go? And yes, God can use anybody, but he's, what he's elected to use me in this particular moment. I want to get to the end of my life, and I want him to say, Well done, I want them to be pleased with me. You know, we talk about judgment day and all the there's gonna be a moment where we all get to heaven and go, What did you do? God's gonna go? What did you do with what I gave you? And I want to be able to say, Man, I, you know, I, I built the apostolic ministry, and we put songs out, you know, we revolutionize the technology space, right? Yeah, we had to give it up podcast, we did all of these different things, we revolutionized and we helped we revolutionize the church, as it pertains to technology and innovation. In a world of AI, right, we can keep going down this. And in a world of AI, who in the church is going to fill the gap of helping us come into an understanding of how to leverage these new tools and innovation for the sake of the gospel. This is what overflow is right? And many, many more, but it's just y'all. It's y'all taking your place. I want to take my place too. And so I think those are the things that get me up in the morning. And that's the that's the inspiration that I want to give to this generation into the next generation of like, man, let's let's get on it. We, the enemy doesn't have a problem moving. So let's let's do what we got to do. So we're just going to start with music business and end with spiritual warfare. Is that what we're doing here? We're gonna, we're gonna talk about we're going to talk about Chick fil A Brad lomenick and TD Jakes, we're going to talk about what to talk about the USA and Rwanda, just all in one podcast, is that what we're doing? That's who you are man, you know that you know that your language is a global sound. It's a it's really fun. I mean, I think we prophesied as though, at the beginning that this podcast was going to cover some ground, we cover some ground. We took some territory. This was a phenomenal conversation, Sam, you know, parting thoughts, as we kind of pull this one up. Anything that you want to kind of share? I mean, to frame these last moments, we're talking to pastor, senior church leaders that have a mindset to want to innovate, and want to take the church into new spaces and new places, would be kind of a final thought to leave us with. Yeah, I would say, I would leave you with a thought that Bobby greenwall Come on, gave me in London one day. I haven't spoken to him in a while. But he's one of the founders, if not the primary founder of YouVersion, the app, they've gone on to reach, you know, three, to maybe 400 phones at million phones around the world at this point. And he said, you know, the church should be the most innovative place on the planet. Yes, because the church was created by the greatest innovator that will ever know. And that's guy, he's, he's a creator. He's an innovator, you know, in the beginning, right? He did, He created and He's created us, I believe, to create, to innovate, to build on top of what he's already built on top of, I'll end with kind of where we where we've been this entire time. And it's man, the Great Commission is our number one goal. That's why we exist is to hopefully prepare the way for Jesus to return the game and that's that's why we're here. Innovation speeds up that process. And so we've got to innovate at every turn. I just want to I love the bobby Grunwald ism, it's let's the church, church leaders, Kingdom ambassadors, which are Christians, we should be the most innovative people on the planet. Because we were created by an innovator. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Sam Collier, our friend, your friend now to buy listen to this pod. We appreciate you thank you so much, man for being on the pot. I love you, bro. I love you says. Thanks so much for listening to the give it up podcast if you want to receive even more insights on church innovation, culture and giving now you can sign up for free to be an overflow insider, where you'll receive exclusive content discounts direct access to Vance Roush to get your questions answered. And also invite only access to our monthly fundraising leadership forums. Head to overflow.co backslash insider, or just click the link in our bio to sign up for free today. In order to get this podcast in the ears of even more church leaders. 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