In this episode of the Give It Up podcast, Vance and Zoe discuss the optics of empty offering buckets, gifting clothes and sneakers to church staff, hot takes on what Jesus would say we should be investing in and giving away current day, and so much more!
This podcast is presented by Overflow, the most powerful giving platform on the planet. Giving cash, stock, or crypto to your church or non-profit has never been easier. Visit overflow.co to experience and step into future of giving.
If you want to receive even more insights on church innovation, culture, and giving, now you can sign up for free to be an Overflow Insider, where you'll receive exclusive content, discounts, direct access to Vance Roush to get your questions answered, and also invite-only access to our monthly Fundraising Leadership Forums! Head to overflow.co/insider now!
Did you know we are also on YouTube? For those that prefer the visual version of the podcast, click here!
Jesus would definitely buy bitcoin 100% Would you like to elaborate on Jesus was an innovator. He was a liberator. He was always on the cutting edge. He brought a redemptive nature to everything that he put his hand to. He was a promoter of women and ministry, these very progressive ideas that would change the face of the planet or ever. A pastor turn tech leader and a millennial churchgoer, explore the intersection of technology, culture and faith, equipping you with innovative strategies to support you as you live out your calling leader churches with confidence to step into the future together. This is the give it up podcast. We had a clip go a little bit viral. And it was over something so stupid. I'm so mad at it. We're dropping nuggets all thing. Gold on this pod and the dumbest topic got the most views. Yeah, if you guys want to see what clip it was, check this out. We don't see security the same way. Here's it. I mean, interesting. We actually trust apps more than we trust people because people can burn us. Yeah, yeah, software's not as much you have the older generation. They love those offering buckets. Yeah, they love writing the checks because it goes from their hands to somebody else's hand. Right? Cash, is it and it's done? Or is that what happens? Yeah, it's so funny, right? We hear from even some givers is distrust in giving online, especially non cash assets. Because it's a new phenomenon. There is this hesitation with some people, and even with some people hesitating to even offer overflow to their congregation. Because this idea of security, yeah. But you're telling me that passing a bucket in church and asking people to write on an envelope, their credit card information, and we are going to put it in the bucket, and we're going to pass it to somebody, I'm sitting with the I don't know, their new guests. And I'm saying that feels secure. So it was over the concept of offering buckets, right? And how the tide has changed. And people were matters because they're like that never happened. And here's something I learned through that experience in response to what people were saying, just because it didn't happen in your experience, doesn't mean it didn't happen, period. Right. And I think that's something we all need to, to learn in today's day and age. Which speaking of today's day and age. I want to ask you this question, Vance. It's 2023. Yep. When this episode comes out, we've been in financial downturn. Jesus wants us to live in abundance, as it says in John 1010. Yep. What would Jesus be saying to us right now about investing? Crypto, how do you think he would talk about money? Give Oh, Jesus was definitely by Bitcoin. 100% Would you like to elaborate on that? Jesus was an innovator. He was a liberator. He was always on the cutting edge. He brought revolution. He brought new ideas, he literally brought a redemptive nature to everything that he put his hand to. Right. He was a promoter of women and ministry, we're going to lose followers from that he was a promoter of these very progressive ideas that would change the face of the planet for ever. And he said things like, you know, they try to trap like, Jesus should we be really paying our taxes because they knew some of it was corrupted, things like that. And he you know, replied as brilliantly as as, as he would do often with this Zinger right here give unto you know, Wait, who's whose face is on that coin? Okay. It Caesar okay. Yeah, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and given to God? What is God's. And so he was a respecter of governments. He was a respecter of authority. And he realized that okay, cool. Like Caesar, Caesar issued that coin, they give it back to him. But what image bears on you? Oh, is that God's image? So give your whole self to God. Right. And so, he was an innovator. He was a, it was a thought provoker. And yeah, that's what I feel like Bitcoin is. I don't actually have a strong position. I was just saying that to be Oh, you help. Well, now, I want to ask, because there's some groups out there that believe that Bitcoin is the equivalent of gambling and as the Bible speaks about gambling, they believe that it's actually sinful to invest in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the mark of the beast. Yeah, what do you think about that behind series? Is this short camera shout out? Come on, Kirk. So I mean, Bitcoin. Specifically. I wouldn't says gambling there are certain cryptocurrencies that I would say is more gambling in nature, especially like the meme coins and things like that Bitcoin is a store of value. That is a good hedge for inflation. If you look at bitcoins performance over the past decade, it outperforms things like the s&p 500. So as a investment product, it has shown to be at least for the past decade, a really good choice for a lot of reasons. Bitcoin, is a good hedge against inflation, because there's a finite set of Bitcoin. So unlike even the US dollar that can just be printed, like we've seen with no end, Bitcoin is fixed. And that literally is the definition of anti inflationary. Yeah. And so that's why people call it digital gold. I would say that there's enough utility in something like Bitcoin that doesn't make it gambling, but that term gambling, if loosely held, can be applied to really any investable product. I mean, yes, it's kind of gambling with your house. I mean, it's a lower risk, but it's still a risk. You can be gambling with the stocks that you purchase the ETFs. They go up and down, right? Or student loans sophisticated, it's sophisticated gambling. Yeah, you could be gambling with investing in your education, picking out leverage taking out loans to leverage buy in education. You're gambling on that. Right? Yeah, and doesn't always mean because you have a college education that you're going to get a high paying job to be able to pay for that leverage be able to pay for those loans. And so if that term is loosely held, I mean, there's a lot of ways you can see gambling, I think, ultimately it comes down to risk reward. Right. And that's actually the advantage that we have as Christians. Another word for faith is risk. Another word for risk is faith. We don't look at our circumstances through the lens of fear. We look at our circumstances through the lens of faith. Yeah, right. Not what could happen. But but but you know, my pastor does his brilliant teaching about, everybody knows about counting the cost. Have you ever taken the perspective of count the cost of not? What if you didn't do something? What if you didn't step out? You know, enlarge your tent tent, add an addition, this is an Isaiah, right? And spare no expense. Wow, to actually fulfill the plans and the purposes of God. There's this idea of sparing no expense, kind of this idea of burning the boats, kind of this idea of stepping out in faith walking on that water. And I don't think you need to be foolish about it. But you do need to be faith filled. Yeah. about it. Right. And so you know, when Jesus by Bitcoin, I don't know. But I know that he operates out of faith. Yeah, I know that he's the greatest innovator of all time. I know that they call him the founder and the perfecter of our faith. So he's a founder, he's an entrepreneur. Well, that's a sell right there. So we're talking about weird giving situations, right? We're talking about Jesus and crypto and through our platform and overflow, we can empower people to give through their crypto. Yeah. And in non cash assets so that they're not tied to their cold hard cash, which is a weird giving situation in itself. Yeah. Because you think of how offering buckets are still present day 2023 passed in churches. There's your church, you know, ours is at the back now. You have one of those kiosks. Oh, no. Still person. Oh, they just hold it as you exit. Like, like a like panhandle? Yep, yep. Okay, now that like, I can't see them. But what is just about it is that you have this bucket that's typically empty. So people are getting this visual of a church that runs off offerings and ties, and there's nothing in it. Right. Right, right. And people, you know, what's funny about that, too, is the buckets we have nowadays, you would actually be seen as more generous if you like put pennies in there because it's loud. You know, like, nobody knows you gave if you drop like a hundo. And they're silent, silent, generous. So if you want known generosity if you want to allow generosity, put some coin, but we are more stealthy in our approach, because the majority of giving now is through online through over 90% Every church has the pandemic ACA celebrated it. Yeah, exactly. Do you think that the visibility of people seeing people put money in a bucket or not is damaging or is it just understood that we're a little bit more stealth in our approach today, the reason why we still have a given moment within service is because I do think churches are balancing innovation with tradition. I think churches are balancing a healthy need I, there are some churches that have told us that they don't do communion anymore within the service, because it kind of freaks people out. And they are maximizing the chance for a newcomer to feel comfortable. I mean, I don't know about that. I mean, the Bible is very clear about your practicing communion. Yeah. And I get it when Jesus said, you know, drink my blood in my flesh, it did lose some followers. Yeah. But he also said it. Yeah. And so I do think that the modern church has a tension that it holds between. Alright, well, what are things do we keep as tradition and sacred? And what do we want to modernize? And you know, it's a, it's a change of method, but not necessarily dilution of message. Yeah. I don't have the right answer for every single component of what that looks like, in a church service. I would just say that for Vive, the church that I serve at and that I go to, we keep a giving moment within the service, because we do believe it is worship. Yeah, we believe that if we're going to host a worship experience, and we're going to allow people to corporately worship together, we do need to have an opportunity and make an opportunity. Whether that means, you know, somebody scanning a QR code, whether that means somebody giving in a bucket, whether that means I don't know, we're about to launch something, we have the services of overflow, shout out, overflow, tap, you know, whether it's tapping on a card that's in front of your seat, kind of like Apple Pay, yeah, to be able to be able to worship God in that moment, you have all these different methods. Our vision at overflow is actually very specific. It's to build the infrastructure that makes generosity frictionless, across every major asset class. I don't think the future is more buckets. I do think the future is more tapping, more instant. Yeah, more automating your obedience, but using technology, even though you're giving his recurring to honor him in a way, how cool would it be, even if you're giving was on a recurring, which I believe is the best way you don't want to make honoring your God based on your memory? And so how cool would it be is even if you had your giving on recurring, that during the giving moment, you could still open up, let's say, the overflow app, and interact with it in a way that brings focus to what you had given that month? Yeah. To God, in honor of him and of his house? What if there was a moment where you can interact with that application? And as you're honoring God, it provided you updates on some of where those funds went to? And how your church impacted the community that week or that month? Yes. Right. How cool would that be? I would love that. It'd be amazing. It goes beyond we say this all the time, a transaction, and it creates moments of celebration. And that's really what God has called us to. It's like, he wants cheerful givers. The Bible says don't give reluctantly give cheerfully give joyfully Yeah, why would we not try to leverage technology to facilitate those moments? Yeah. And I think one thing that your church also does really well, is that in that given moment, as I've experienced, you're not just saying, hey, scan a QR code up there to give, you're actually telling people all of the ways in which they can get Yes. And you're drawing attention to it. Yes, yes. Therefore, it's not weird. If you draw the attention to it exactly. Your say, Hey, you can give in cash, hey, you can give me a credit card. Hey, you can also give through your stocks, your crypto pretty soon. There's gonna be a lot of other ways to you, yes, you can talk about. But it almost creates this sense of imagination you're giving, which I think is really cool. Really good. Being a Silicon Valley based church. I think that's really important that you are tapping into people's imagination into the generosity as well. And this is a weird trend. Everyone knows about that happened a couple years ago, preachers and sneakers, which the trend was the Instagram account, but what was happening was pastors were wearing very expensive shoes on stage. And many of them afterwards was like, Oh, I was given the sneakers. Sure. No, I have lots of thoughts on this. Because I'm sneakerhead myself. But one of the things I think was interesting about this Is that nobody thought, I'm going to give these sneakers to the church because they're valuable. I'm going to give them to the pastor. But what if there was a way in which these weird giving situations were like, I don't know how to feel about this, should I be receiving the gift of the church be receiving the gift? Yeah, that there was something that could facilitate anything that you want to give a wine, an NF t be cool. So that you can bring that generosity and also funnel it into the church or a cause that you believe. And I was like, overflow sounds like, oh, my gosh, did I just tee us up perfectly. Bands talk about? Well, first off, how far away? Are we from being able for people to give actual tangible items? We're not that far away. I would say that in the vision of building the infrastructure that makes generosity frictionless, across every major asset class, in our product roadmap, we are knocking down all the ways in which we believe we can unlock unprecedented amounts of generosity. How come you can go to a cafe right now? Go to Blue Bottle, pay for your $7 single origin pour over via Apple Pay. But you can't even give your tithes and offerings via Apple Pay? How come you can go to a restaurant? And because you're not generous, and you want to go Dutch? And because you're still single and you go Dutch and that's why you're single? You Venmo request that girl? How come you've can Venmo request her but you can't give your tithes and offerings via Venmo to your church? How come you can give to that person on the side of the street that's doing street performance via cash app? I'm telling you, there are guitarists on the side of the street that is more innovative than some of our organizations right now. And so in our product roadmap, it's all those things, right? We are releasing the ability to give you an Apple Pay cash app Venmo. Eventually, in the not too distant future, I would say probably in the next couple of years really unlocking and unleashing really every single thing you can imagine. Yeah, whether it's sneakers, whether it's wine, collectibles, anything of value, especially of appreciating value for sure wants you to be able to give. We say this that because Amazon exists. So you spend more money online, because Amazon exists. I know my wife spends more money online, I see the receipts. All of us do, right? Yeah. Because overflow exists. People will say they give more money online thing that that we have broken off all limitation. Yeah, we have removed every excuse to be able to live extravagantly generous. Yeah. And so when you know, that it's all God's anyways, it's not the question of how much do I need to give? It's actually the question of how much do I need to keep and the rest I give? Man, that's, that's so powerful. Because another concept that I think a lot of church leaders and nonprofits don't realize is that the more lanes of generosity you open up, innately good, there's more generosity, because you're making people think differently about what they have, and what they have to give. Yeah. So I think it really seen this firsthand. We have a Slack channel, literally, that real time doesn't kind of name people by name. But real time is a real time feed of all the gifts coming through our platform. And we routinely see five figure gifts. Yeah, six figure gifts. And I love those gifts, because it's like everybody's like fire emoji inspired rocket ships, you know? Yeah, to the moon. You know, it's like, all these things, because you could just see our lean team, just a few dozen people getting so amped. Generosity begets generosity, generosity inspires generosity. And I wish people were plugged into our Slack channel, because they would be so inspired. That Wow, the world is generous. Yes. Wow. Like our world isn't large when we're generous. Yeah, there's people out there we are as human beings wired to give. Yeah, we just need to be able to facilitate it. We need to educate it. We need to unlock it. We need to make it easy. Yeah. For people and the education piece is not as threatening as people make it out to be right. Nobody is asking you to be a full time pastor, and a full time financier, right. Why do we think that? You just have to know basics. And we teach people that and actually, if you had to overflow insider, we have a special episode coming up shortly, where we're going to cover the best ways to prep a giving message. I love that. Well, you're gonna be giving it Okay, cool. Yeah. I love it. So, head to overflow.co/insider It's free, sign up for that and you get exclusive access because it's only on insider comm on it's not going live. It's in the vault. That's all. Thanks so much for listening to the give it up podcast if you want to receive even more insights on church innovation, culture and giving now you can sign up for free to be an overflow insider where you'll receive exclusive content discounts direct access to Vance Roush to get your questions answered, and also invite only access to our monthly fundraising leadership forums, head to overflow.co backslash insider, or just click the link in our bio to sign up for free today. In order to get this podcast in the ears of even more church leaders. Could you please subscribe and leave a review for the show? This tells the podcast players what people are enjoying and want to hear more of and we are adamant about providing maximum value to even more church leaders. Thanks so much. We'll see you next time.